Why you need a global perspective on DEI with Alison Pacifico-France

Hi, my name’s Dr Paul Brewerton, the strengths guy, Doctor of Organisational Psychology and founder and Chair of Strengthscope. Today’s podcast is a next chapter in a conversation that started about 8 months ago on the topic of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. That conversation was the most downloaded of all the conversations I’ve had to date with some amazing guests and it was called ‘the future of DEI in organisations…courageous inclusion’ with today’s guest, Alison Pacifico-France. Welcome once again Alison.

And also thank you for taking the time. I know since we spoke last year, work has got busier and busier for you as demand grows for your expertise in DEI. It finally feels as though this part of organisational life is starting to be seen as essential for engagement, attraction and retention and that a ‘tick box’ approach isn’t enough any more.  As you said to me a while back, while representation is crucial, if all you focus on is hitting percentage diversity targets in your workforce but you don’t address underlying prejudices and you don’t develop a culture of inclusion, the diverse employees you’ve brought in will leave, because they’ll realise it’s not psychologically safe.  And there’s a growing appreciation of this…although a long way to go still for every organisation.

So in today’s podcast, we’re going to build on the topics we covered last time: we discussed the work you do on courageous inclusion (as you’ve named it…brilliant name by the way because genuine inclusion takes courage…courage to be prepared to get it wrong, whatever that means, courage to face into potentially difficult conversations which may be triggering for people and to navigate through that with empathy and confidence…it’s a tough balance); we also covered how you use strengths as a starter for those courageous conversations and we talked about the future of DEI in organisations and what’s coming next.

So today, we’re going to take a more global perspective, we’re going to look at DEI in a regional and global context, so whether you’re working internationally in a multicultural team, whether you’re working in DEI in some way and facing the challenge of going global in your work, or whether you are just interested in trends in this area and want to get a practitioner view on the practical stuff when it comes to DEI issues, you’ve come to the right place. So let’s go.

Once again Alison, welcome to the county of Sussex, in the country of the United Kingdom, in the Continent of Europe, in the Northern Hemisphere of the Earth, located in a medium sized Solar system in the Milky Way galaxy.  There’s a global perspective to get us going lol.

Let’s start by considering the impact for you of growing up, living and working in the UK?  Especially given your work context of DEI and courageous inclusion. What’s your ’home’ world view? And why is it important to consider that when working in this space?

What are your thoughts on the term DEI in general?  What about Belonging? And how does that work on a global basis?


What do you interpret the saying ‘think global, act local’ to mean?


Where do you draw the line? With multiple, often competing, complex identities how can you work through conflict between groups?


Tell us more about your work on antiracism


What would your top tips be to become more impactful as a global DEI leader? Or as a DEI practitioner with a global remit?


Alison, what’s the best way of people connecting with you if they want to hear more or they’re interested in your work in this space?




Thank you Alison, as always, that’s been a stimulating, mind- and view-altering conversation and I really appreciate you taking the time. We’ll be putting up your contact details and recommended reading and resources in the shownotes. You’ll find those in the Resources section of the Strengthscope website, just search for Alison or DEI or the name of this podcast and it will come up. Or depending on when you’re listening to this podcast, it may well pop up when you first land in the Resources section of the site.  Thanks again Alison, see you soon and until next time everyone, stay strong!



Book – Rohini Anand (2022) “Leading Global diversity. Equity and inclusion”


            Intercultural conflict style inventory https://icsinventory.com

            The Intercultural Development Inventory® (IDI®) – https://idiinventory.com